On Sunday, April 15th, we had the pleasure of spending an hour with independent candidate for Governor in Kansas, Greg Orman.
Greg is a successful businessman and entrepeurner who ran as an independent for the US Senate in 2014 and made national headlines with almost unseating the incumbent Republican Pat Roberts. In 2016 Greg wrote A Declaration of Independents: How We Can Break the Two-Party Stranglehold and Restore the American Dream. The book offers a powerful look at independents and our potential role in moving our country beyond, what Greg so aptly calls, weaponized partisanship and is a scathing indictment of the two party system, the duopoly.
You can listen to our full conversation at the end of this post.
In our opening segment you will hear my introduction of Greg and our initial conversation where we talked about what Greg hopes people take away from his book, the unique role he sees independents and independent candidates playing in bringing people together and they dynamics in the current gubernatorial race. Give a listen:
Evelyn Dougherty from the Massachusetts Coalition of Independent Voters asked our first question. Book club members in MA wondered what were the most important lessons Greg learned as an independent candidate in 2014 that he is taking into his independent run for Governor this year? Here is what Greg shared with us:
Steve Richardson, the founding member of Virginia Independent Voters Association and asked our next question about the struggle independent voters face and the need for structural political reform at a state level. You can listen to Greg and Steve’s conversation here.
Dr. Jessie Fields and Greg had a rich conversation about the divisions in the country and how to bring differing communities together. Dr. Fields shared, “My view is that the parties divide the American people and the Black community is being told in many ways that its interests are synonymous with…the Democratic Party in particular.” Greg agreed and said, “…the two parties tend to want to divide us because it serves their electoral purposes, and yet we all understand how fundamentally damaging that is to our country. And so I think, if you are genuinely an independent and you genuinely put your country and your state ahead of any political party or frankly ahead of any other interest, then ultimately you have to be working in the service of bringing people together. ” You can listen to their full interaction about the African American community and how Greg is reaching out to bring people together outside the parties here.
Steve Hough, the Director of Florida Fair and Open Primaries asked Greg his view of the Top Two Nonpartisan Primary System. Greg shared his past support for the system and some of the challenges he believes the Top Two system presents for independent candidates. You can listen to their exchange.
Harry Kresky, Independent Voting’s general counsel asked Greg how he saw the issue of independents having the right to vote in primaries—was it a bottom line issue that the movement could agree upon. In his response, Greg shared his view, “…One person, one vote is something the Supreme Court has codified in law yet one person one vote doesn’t seem to apply if you’re an independent….There is a basic inconsistency in the law and again courts have consistently confirmed that partisan primaries are private political behavior and yet they seem to not have a problem with the government paying for that private political behavior….I think the way we’re going to start making progress on opening up primaries, particularly in states where there isn’t a citizen driven initiative, is largely going to be through forcing the courts to make a more consistent decision.” You can listen to the full exchange:
Sue Davies, the coordinator of New Jersey Independent Voters shared with Greg that she works with independents who are pursuing a strategy of taking over one or the other of the major parties. Greg shared with us that this is not a strategy that he has given a lot of thought to and pointed out, “…We need to start recognizing that as independents we have the numbers and we have to start coalescing around candidates and ultimately winning some elections is a way to change the perception about the viability of independent candidacies.” Give a listen:
George Trapp, a member of Independent Voice of Ohio told us that he was glad to read in Greg’s book his view of the importance of addressing economic mobility and poverty. George asked Greg if there what were examples of the government doing too much and examples of the government doing too little to help poor people. You can hear Greg’s response.
You can listen to the full recording of our P4P conversation below.
If you would like to stay up to date on Greg’s campaign, please visit OrmanforKansas.org.
Oh great!
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I thoroughly enjoyed Greg’s book, and equally enjoyed his participation in the P4P conference call. I was honored to be able to ask him a question, but I felt the need for a follow-up question. However, as time was limited, I refrained.
My original question was prefaced by his response to a questioner at a talk he gave in Maine before the Center for Global Humanities concerning term limits. His response was that he would rather change the system. In his response to that question, he ticked off reforms such as changing Congressional incentives (eg. Congressional pensions), a lifetime ban on lobbying after leaving office, and the elimination of leadership PACs. While I agree these would all be good reforms, and would require “consent of the victims”, my question was related to electoral reform.
Since he had already mentioned ranked choice voting in response to an earlier questioner on the call (and while in Maine, whose audience already had a favorable opinion of ranked choice voting), I asked him to address a top two open primary system.
Although independents in states with “early” primaries could be disadvantaged due to the short time frame afforded to get their message out, I would suggest that independents running in a general election, being viewed as spoilers, is a much greater concern.
Additionally, my home state of Florida still has closed primaries. I would love to get rid of primaries altogether and have only a general election decided by ranked choice voting, but as Katherine Gehl advises reformers, we must seek reforms that are achievable. As Florida is now the third most populace state, I don’t believe ranked choice voting (even in our primaries) is a viable option.
The city of Sarasota, Florida overwhelmingly approved ranked choice voting in 2007. They are still awaiting the state’s approval. Furthermore, even Rob Richie, the Executive Director of Fair Vote, acknowledges the logistical difficulties of implementing ranked choice voting on large scales. As Florida is such a large state, and partisans of both major parties resist any change to the status quo, mobilizing non-affiliated voters to demand a top two open primary remains our best hope for electoral reform in the near term.
Independents in every state face unique challenges. It is my hope that we will continue working together on every front in order to topple the corrupt political duopoly.